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Mormonism: 'Another Testament of Jesus Christ', or Another Gospel Altogether?Submitted by matt on Mon, 2006-02-13 15:17.
The Book of Mormon is promoted as "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" -- a sort of "companion guide" to the Bible. The LDS church strives to be viewed and treated as another "denomination" of orthodox Christianity, and Mormons are offended and dismayed when Christians don't accept them as fellow Believers, the latter even going so far as to classify their religion as a cult! After all, they "believe" in Jesus, the Bible, faith, and so on, right? Why can't we all just learn to get along and accept one another? Here's why. For a second let's forget the fact that genetic science, archaeology, linguistics, and the like have decisively disproved the historicity of the Book of Mormon. Disregard the indisputable differences and conflict between Latter-day Saints' doctrine and the clear witness of real Scripture. Never mind the inaccurate and unfulfilled prophecies, the immorality and deceit of the leadership and teachings, the historical revisionism, the mind control, the occult practices, and the shattered lives. That has all been hashed and re-hashed ad nauseam in many different forums and media. Instead, I propose a simple Biblical test. Ask the next missionaries who show up at your door:
...and note their answer. Then compare it to the Biblical response:
That is the Gospel of the Bible, plain and simple. Of course equally scriptural variations would include faith and/or repentance, which are just different words for the same idea. Biblical faith is belief/confession is repentance. This is the clear testimony of the Word. Did your Mormons get it right? Mine didn't. I've asked this question twice now, with two different groups, and the response was the same: "baptism". No hesitation, no qualification, no mention of faith, belief, or repentance. No mention of Jesus! In short, no Biblical Gospel, period. Did they throw in some of these things when pressed (read: prompted) further? Yes. But the clear and focal message of their "gospel" was unmistakable: works. Would every Mormon respond in this way? Perhaps not. But this unabashed response of works-based salvation is consistent with a deeper study of their theology, and I expect we'd hear it echoed in some form by the vast majority of Mormons. And if a "gospel" (lowercase 'g') does not agree with the Biblical Gospel (uppercase 'G'), we've got a problem. Paul was so adamant on this point he said it twice in a row:
Need we delve further? I am glad for the mountain of evidence we have against the dangerous false teachings of Mormonism; but I am confident the un-Biblical, anti-Christian status of the so-called "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" may be determined even by such a simple test as this. For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12) ( categories: Theology )
Thanks for your comments, Jake. Sacramentalism (works) coupled with faith is still sacramentalism. Like the Catholic church, the LDS church adds requirements, such as baptism, to faith which negate the Biblical concept of salvation by grace through faith. As Paul said, "but if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." (Rom 11:6). A free gift is no longer a free gift if you've worked for it. Claiming the works cooperate with or are subordinate to faith is a clever disguise, and has fooled many people, but cannot circumvent the Biblical Truth that one cannot earn their way to heaven. For more on this topic, read the books of Romans and Galatians all the way through. Furthermore, and as I stated in my article, it is very telling when, regardless of what official doctrine states, an answer is given which betrays true emphases. A Bible-believing Christian familiar with Biblical teachings on faith/salvation/works would have no cause to affirm a works or partial-works path to salvation. A sacramentalist would. As for ignoring science, logic, and common sense when considering one's spiritual beliefs, I have to most strenuously disagree! Blind faith is illogical and untenable. If you're going to have blind faith, ask yourself why you've placed your blind faith in a particular religion...? Why not Buddhism or Islam or atheism? Blind faith is by definition without proof and cause. You are therefore simply a product of chance and your upbringing, without any reason WHY you believe what you believe. People of ALL belief systems give the cop-out answer of a "burning in the bosom" or that they "just know it's true". Poppeycock. I believe the Bible and trust Jesus because the witnesses of history, science, and reason compel me. I do not believe LDS teachings because they are illogical and easily disprovable by the same. In my opinion, not being bothered by the inconsistencies of your god and scriptures is possible only through total apathy or brainwashing! No problem. I appreciate your honesty about my opinions, and wish to comment further. Regarding faith and works, the LDS church believes in a free gift: the gift of resurrection. We believe that through Christ's atonement and subsequent resurrection, all mankind will also be resurrected and receive a perfect body one day. This is a gift that we do not need to work for. However, we believe that there is more to it than that. We believe that faith is what compels us to do good works, and that we will one day be judged by our works. Christ set the example in being baptized as well, and we also believe that proper baptism is one of those steps we need to take. Fortunately, we also believe that ALL people will have the opportunity to learn of these things, whether it be in this life or the next, so that no one will be denied the blessings of Christ's gospel. I guess this is a point where we will have to agree to disagree. Regarding science and logic, I don't feel that I'm ignoring those points at all. I just meant that I believe you will NEVER be able to sufficiently convince someone of a religious/moral belief through science/logic alone, as you can always find someone else with an equally scientific or logical counterpoint. I really believe that there is more to it than that, and I do not consider that a cop out at all. We believe that we can learn the truth of all things through our own study and learning, followed by faith in and being in tune with the promptings of the Holy Ghost. I'm sorry if these thoughts came across as blind faith - I want you to know that they are far from that. Again, thanks for your time on this board. I always enjoy discussing religious topics, as it is such an important facet of my life. Jake Hello again Jake, I'll try to keep this brief. ;-) "A free gift" of resurrection is a much different thing than "the free gift" of atonement and forensic justification by grace through faith as the Bible teaches. Again, like Catholicism, Mormonism has developed terminology which sounds Christian, though the actual meanings and connotations are not. If we were judged by our works, we would all fall short (Romans 3). That's why works cannot by definition obtain justification for us (Eph 2:8). Only if the perfection of Jesus is accounted as our own can we ever meet God's perfect standard (2 Cor 5:21). Ultimately there is a point at which logic and science must give way to faith. However, you betray your fatalistic attitude toward reason and seek to subjugate logic to emotion with statements like "you can always find someone else with an equally scientific or logical counterpoint". By definition, science and logic are absolutes -- you cannot have two opposing logical arguments which are both correct. Granted, we don't always know for sure which of any given "facts" is the correct one, but does that mean we simply throw up our hands in defeat and instead just "go with our gut feeling"? If so, you're right back where you started. Your gut feeling and mine cannot both be correct since they stand in opposition. Emotions and feelings are fickle, for "the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked" (Jer 17:9). Look within yourself for answers and you will almost certainly NOT find Truth. Truth comes from without, from God, and is evidenced by His Creation (Rom 1:20). I am convinced because archaelogy, anthropology, linguistics, internal consistency, fulfilled prophecy, et al, speak to the accuracy and divine origination of the Bible. These same things speak markedly AGAINST the Book of Mormon. Yes, I have read the LDS rejoinders on these issues, and quite frankly they're laughable. I'd have to be a fool to ignore a mountain of evidence in favor of a "feeling". My beliefs are backed up by real evidence and sealed by faith and I do not believe you can rightfully say the same for yours! Matt, I think we're really thinking a lot of the same thoughts here, just on different sides of the fence, and that's okay. I completely agree that if we were judged by are works alone, that we would all fall short. That is why we believe that, after all that we can do, Christ will account for the difference and be our mediator with the Father. This is why we believe that the atonement was such an important event - without it, we could never meet God's perfect standard, because we are imperfect, but Christ has paid for the sins of the world. I'm sorry if this sounds un-Christian to you - I feel that is a very Christian belief. You hit the nail on the head when you said that "we don't always know for sure which of any given "facts" is the correct one". However, I feel like you're giving all of the credit to science and logic, and not enough to the faith that backs up that science and logic. I could just as easily say that we don't always know for sure which of any given "feelings" is the correct one, but that doesn't mean we simply throw up our hands in defeat and go with someone's opinion, no matter how scientific or logical it may seem. While I'm sure there are few who would doubt the evidence of the existence of Christ on the earth, I imagine that you can find people in the world that refute any evidence stating that Christ was truly divine. These people would also believe that their feelings are backed up by the lack of positive evidence linking Godliness to Christ. If the evidence was substantial that Christ was not divine, then I believe that there would be far less followers of Christ in the world. In other words, how do you reconcile these people with people who believe? This is where faith comes into play, and where one needs to take a stand in what they believe in. The same, I believe, is true of Mormonism, Catholicism, or any other religion out there. There will always be people with piles of evidence ready to disprove one's beliefs. And there will always be another group with piles of evidence to prove their belief. So how is this reconciled? You are right that both of our gut feelings cannot be correct as they stand in opposition. Again, how is this reconciled? I believe party due to the fact that we have many common beliefs, and all truth, no matter where it originates, is from God. And party due to the fact that the term you refer to as a 'gut feeling' is much much more than that to me. I truly believe in my heart that we can learn spiritual truths through the Holy Ghost and KNOW that it is through the Holy Ghost that we have learned such things. I know that the Lord loves all of us and has restored His gospel on the earth today in its entirety. He has a living prophet on the earth today who guides His church. My purpose in posting here was to inform those who read this blog (which may just be me and you:)) that there is more to the story than was written. I hope I've helped others realize that in some way. Jake, Lets be clear: we are most certainly NOT saying "basically the same things". I am very familiar with Mormon theology, as am I with the enemy's successes in today's ecumenical climate. Of course this is really nothing new/unexpected -- the Bible warns that Satan masquerades as an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14), "wolves" will challenge the flock from seemingly within (Acts 20:29), and deception/apostasy are essential antecedents to the Second Coming (2 Thes 2). Unless you are giving the Biblical formula of salvation sola gratia (by grace ALONE), sola fide (by faith ALONE), we are light-years apart. If, in your system, salvation is obtained by faith plus ANYTHING else, no matter how minuscule or cleverly couched with terms such as "cooperates", our theologies are not compatible. I believe in the Biblical message of justification (salvation) by grace through faith, period, end of story. Not grace through faith plus 50% works. Not grace through faith plus 1% works. Not grace through faith plus 0.0001% works. Not grace through faith plus baptism, plus communion, plus ANYTHING. Faith alone secures for us the justification obtained by Jesus' atonement which rectifies our fallen position with God. Any deviation from this message, no matter how slight, stands in complete and total opposition to it. Any works (including baptism/communion) performed by the justified Christian are a natural outpouring of their faith and already regenerated existence, not a bid to obtain or cement a standing with God. This process of life change and obedience is called "sanctification", and will be an observable evidence of their ALREADY justified position. Yes works are a part of Christian life. No, works are not a requirement to become or stay a Christian. First you become a Christian through faith, then you begin to live for God. We are saved by faith alone, but we do not live by a faith that IS alone. James drives this point home. A Christian is evidenced by their works, but not created by them (in whole or part). It's a classic "cart-before-the-horse" scenario. Stay with me here, this is an important distinction. In fact it is THE important distinction. And I don't believe we're splitting hairs here either. This is what sets Biblical Christianity apart from man-made belief systems. Man tries to work his way to heaven. Whether he claims to give 50%, 99%, or 99.9999% of the glory to God, man always reserves a portion of the credit for himself. Not only does the Word of God proclaim an altogether different way to salvation, it sets itself up in absolute exclusionary opposition to anything else. That's why we have such a rift here on what you may think, at first glance, is a small point of variance. However, it is rather a paramount, defining, and dividing element of Christianity. You simply can't say we're saying basically the same thing if we're not in agreement on this one vital point. When you place other requirements (works) alongside faith you are by definition no longer within the realm of Biblical Christianity. With regard to salvation/grace, the Bible positions faith and works as antithetical (Rom 11:6). Grace cannot be obtained, dispensed, or prolonged, even in part, by works (2 Tim 1:9; Gal 2:21). According to the Bible, a sinner in the position of grace can only have gotten there by faith alone (Gal 5:4). From the very instant of justification through this saving faith, a person is right with God, and will be in heaven when they die, whether it be 2 seconds later -- having never been baptized, taken communion, or done a single good deed -- or 50 years later -- having lived an obedient and sanctified life. All that matters as to our salvation is faith! What we "do" has absolutely no bearing on our standing with God, since we are *all* condemned sinners anyway (Rom 3:10-24). You cannot undo what you've already done (sin). More "doing", even if it's good, only serves to more pointedly evidence the wickedness of that which you've previously done (Gal 2:18). As such it is impossible to escape the mire of sin and works by anything other than 100% grace through 100% faith. Jake, I don't know you beyond an IP address and a few postings on my humble little web site. But I do hope to see you in heaven some day. However, I do believe it's your choice to put your faith in the Jesus of the Bible or something/someone else. And I do believe God will honor your choice, for better or worse. Please understand that the Gospel of the Bible is not the gospel of Mormonism. Right or wrong, these are two very different religions. This is a very serious distinction, and the most important decision you'll ever make. You'd better be sure you're right, because the Bible is very clear that saving Grace is only promised to those whose faith is in Jesus alone. Let me sum it up succinctly for you, Jake: The difference is I have placed my faith according to observations and evidence, essentially in harmony with reason and knowledge from WITHOUT. Your faith is indifferent to evidence, instead relying on "proof" from WITHIN. Restated, the difference is between objectivity and subjectivity. Emotions and feelings -- things that originate from within -- are subjective and not grounded in fact or reason. On the other hand, evidence and logic are tangible and objective, even if the application thereof is not always. My faith is confirmed and aided by the Holy Spirit, but grounded in reality. I do not shy away from facts and science and research because they only affirm my beliefs. Your faith, and the faith of Buddhists, Islamists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., is grounded not in rational thought, but in rationalization; basically, belief for the sake of belief and in spite of lacking or contrasting evidence. Again, you cannot point to any demonstrable reason(s) why you are a Mormon and not a Hindu (or any other belief system). I do believe there is absolutely no merit in that kind of "faith" (or shall we call it superstition?), but apparently you disagree. Matt, Thanks for your points, and I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Again, my purpose in replying here was to try to better explain the other side of your argument, which I feel you lacked. And yes, I absolutely feel that proof from within is worth much more than knowledge from without. No amount of knowledge, evidence, or proof from without will ever be enough to convince someone of the truth of the Lord or His ways. This isn't being indifferent to evidence in my opinion - it's just placing more weight on what I consider much more important, a sure testimony in Christ received through the Holy Ghost, not through man's reasoning. I know that the Lord loves us and wants us to learn about Him and His teachings, and that He has restored His church on the earth today in its entirety. That is something that only the Lord can give and no one can take away. Thanks for listening to my replies and leaving them up on your blog. I have enjoyed the time we have spent discussing these issues. I really do understand what you're saying. It's not at all an uncommon mindset. But unfortunately, the Word disagrees with you, and so must I. I should add as well that I don't think of my religion as "Mormonism". I think of it as the Church of Jesus Christ, restored in the Latter-Days. And having the fulness of the Gospel on the earth today, and not just bits and pieces of the truth, is what distinguishes His church over any other religion in the world today. This is His church - the same church He established while on the earth so many years ago. He guides it through modern revelation and living prophets, and the best part of all is that anyone who has a sincere desire and faith sufficient to know the truth of these things can know so through the power of the Holy Ghost. You don't have to be a theologist or a master scriptorian to know these things - the most powerful testimony of truth can come to us in simple ways if we give it a chance. I extend the same invitation to you or anyone else reading this blog - the promise of truth is real if we but open our ears to hear and our hearts to feel. I learned a long time ago that nomenclature is meaningless without accurately understanding definition. Unfortunately, definitions vary from place to place, and, especially when dealing with cults, are often intentionally skewed for maximum deception. That said, I appreciate your preference, and rest-assured I understand the intent and theology behind it. Mormons consider themselves Christians, and "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" sounds much more Christian than "Mormonism". I, however, do not consider Mormonism to be Christian, so if it's all the same to you, I'll stick with the label which is more accurate and less confusing to the masses. As I understand it, Mormon(ism), while not a perferred term, is not considered particularly offensive. If I'm wrong on that point, do let me know. And I have to respond to your other statements with a simple "prove it". Please, not to me, but to yourself. The Mormon "extra" scriptures have so many consistency, scientific (geography, population dynamics, metallurgy, genetics, linguistics, etc.), and logic errors I can't even BEGIN to say how much they can't be trusted. The Bible on the other hand, has unchangingly stood the test of time, fulfilled prophecy, archeology, etc., and has proven itself to be not only an accurate historical record, but divinely-inspired. The Book of Mormon (and friends) is not only controverted by these same things, it contradicts Biblical teachings in many ways, which immediately disqualifies it as any kind of divine scripture. And if you did even a cursory study of the MIRACULOUS transmissional accuracy of the Biblical text over all these years, you wouldn't bother with the time-weary "but the Bible has been corrupted" nonsense. You say these things, you make these grandiose statements, but you have absolutely nothing more to back it up than your own "internal proof". Fact is, Christ's Church and the Word of God have absolutely nothing to do with Morminism or its "scriptures" -- and that's not just a "feeling", it's research, real evidence, and a God-given mind engaged in rational thought. Real Truth is contained in the Bible and is available without exception to all comers, from the highest theologian to the most primitive intelect. Of course brain power doesn't get you to heaven, faith does. There are, of course, many Christians who believed without much evidence, and I'm glad for their faith no matter they arrived. (I'd hope they eventually follow the Biblical admonition to be ready to give an account...) But for those caught up in false teachings, or who need more convincing, the proof is there. Matt, No, Mormonism is not an offensive term in and of itself. It just doesn't convey the real intent of the religion, which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As far as proving it to myself, that was done many years ago (back when I was 19, to be exact). Before then, I could say that I believed the Church was true, etc., but I didn't really know it in my heart until I gained a testimony of my own (not my friend's/parent's/church member's testimony, but my own). While personal study of the scriptures is certainly key, this "internal proof" or personal testimony is all one needs to become converted to the Gospel of Christ, so I really do not need anything else to back that up. Once you stray from that, you start to enter into the world of men, where religous proofs or "evidence", etc. can very easily come down to one's opinion or one's interpretation. I've said this before - you can find many people that will discredit the Book of Mormon, and many people that will contradict those people. On the other hand, you can also find many people that will discredit the Creation account from Genesis, and many people who believe and will contradict those people. I was reading in a Time magazine the other day which interviewed an Athiest professor and a religious person, and the Athiest called the other person's claims that the world was divinely created "The father of all cop-outs". However, the fact that the evidence that we have regarding the Creation is disputable by many people in the world doesn't change my testimony of the truthfulness of it. The same is true of the Book of Mormon - I know that it is a divine record of the Lord's prophets, just as the Bible is, even though there always has been and always will be someone ready to dispute those claims. Again, I extend the invitation to know the truth from within to any who are willing to give it a shot. I know that is the only way one can become truly converted. Well again you've ignored my challenge regarding what sets your "testimony"/"internal proof" apart from those of other religions. You can buy entire books of testimonies from individuals of any given religion, including Biblical Christianity. Everything you've said on this topic I've heard before, and from non-Mormons. These people are every bit as sincere as yourself. They feel every bit as valid in their beliefs, and give ALL THE SAME reasons as yourself, although they have quite different theologies. How can you explain this? I realize this is a difficult question for you to address, since it challenges the very core of your faith. At this point, I'd like to distill the entire discussion down to this one question and ask you to address it before continuing. I'm sorry if it seems so, but I am in no way doubting the sincerity of yours or other people's testimonies. I believe that many religions and religious people know of and understand many Gospel truths, and I believe that any Gospel truth comes from the Lord, regardless of where one may have heard it. However, I believe that having a testimony in the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is the key difference here, as it encompasses all of these religious truths and then some. Knowing that Christ is guiding His very church today through a modern-day prophet, and has restored His priesthood on the earth as the authority to act in His name, just as in ancient days, is truly what sets the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints apart from other religions. And while I believe that many religions contain many important Gospel truths and many good people, I believe that only one can be guided by Christ himself, and can contain the fulness of His gospel. It is really an amazing thing to know that the Heavens are still open, that Christ always has been and is still the head of His church, and that no one will be denied the opportunity to learn of His Gospel in its entirety. I hope this helps to clarify your concern. Post new comment |
I came across this blog when searching for information about Gadgetcity (nice job getting the free stuff by the way - I'm currently trying to get an Xbox 360 myself from Gadgetcity), and I came across this blog. I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ever since I was baptized at age 8, and while I lived off of the coattails of my parent's testimony for a long time, I can now say that I have gained a stronger testimony of Christ and what He has done to help me return to His presence on my own accord as a member of this Church.
I don't know what else other Mormons have told you, but one of our 13 Articles of Faith as we call them says the following:
"We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost."
(http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,106-1-2-1,00.htmlv)
We believe that there are many facets that involve returning to live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ again, but the most important ones are listed above.
And regarding the Book of Mormon, I believe that you will never know the truth of the book from archaeologists, linguists, or the like, because for every person who will try to disprove something, you can find another person who will try to prove it. I'm having a similar conversation to this with a friend a work now, who cannot believe that Christ was divine, because there is no concrete evidence in his mind to show that He was anything more than a man. But my response to him regarding Christ is the same response to you regarding the Book of Mormon: Have a desire to know if the truth of what is on your mind, do all you can to know if that thing is true, and ask the Lord if it is true. I believe that only then can we truly know the things of God.
Here's another link with some information answering some questions about our beliefs:
http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/questions/0,8789,895-1-16,00.html
I applaud you for having a belief in Christ - there are too many people in the world that would be a lot happier if they had His comfort in their lives.